The Art of Independent Fatherhood
Welcome to "The Art of Independent Fatherhood," the podcast dedicated to empowering and guiding single dads on their unique journey. Join me, certified coach Jay Rush as I explore the challenges and triumphs of independent fatherhood, offering practical advice, heartwarming stories, and expert insights to help you navigate single fatherhood with confidence.
The Art of Independent Fatherhood
On Mindful Parenting: An Interview with Tommy Geary, Men's Mindset Strategist
This week's episode is an insightful interview with Tommy Geary, the host of The Durable Dad podcast and owner of Tommy G. Coaching. His mission is to bring coaching and emotional awareness to men who have a powerful influence on their work culture, communities and families.
We explore mindful parenting and its impact on building deeper connections with our kids. By dedicating undivided attention and being fully present, we can strengthen our bond with our children.
Our discussion extends to the importance of understanding your emotions and recognizing the traumas that shape your personal growth. We'll explore the difference between therapy and coaching, and introduce the concept of emotional agility. Together, we'll learn to process emotions and heal our 'emotional wounds', which is key to achieving our parenting goals. Lastly, we'll discuss the potential damage of judgment and criticism and the importance of acknowledging and processing trauma to move forward in life. Listen for powerful tools you need to manage your emotions better, build stronger connections with your kids, and create a healthier parenting environment. Tune in!
To connect with Tommy, you can listen to his podcast, Durable Dad or check out his new Get Organized group course starting October 17th, 2023.
See what Jay is up to at Jay Rush Coaching!
Hey guys, welcome to the art of independent fatherhood, the podcast dedicated to empowering and guiding single dads on their unique journey. Join me, certified coach Jay Rush, as I explore the challenges and triumphs of independent fatherhood, offering practical advice, real stories and expert insights to help you navigate single fatherhood with confidence.
Speaker 2:Are we recording for the podcast already, because yeah we're recording. This is it. Hey, it's sweet man, love it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, um, yeah, so you're, you're a coach, you're a, you're a coach for dads.
Speaker 2:I am yeah, yeah, dude. Well, I mean, I think we can start. I don't know I mean right where we started this morning of just like that was an awesome little men's group session we had.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what do you? What do you think was like the um? What do you think the biggest takeaway was?
Speaker 2:Uh, for me, I definitely felt lighter afterwards. I was I don't know. It was interesting Like I. I had a good morning. Uh, I was, you know, woke up not as early as I wanted, but that's kind of been par for the course lately, uh, and then got the girls out of the house, came home, was feeling good, kind of telling myself I don't need to go to my the men's group meeting today but I was like I want to see these dudes.
Speaker 2:So popped on and you know, you opened up. We all kind of you know, did some breathing and slowed down and my biggest takeaway was like, oh, there was more of a heaviness or responsibility that I had been carrying for a while that maybe I was, um, not aware of. So it was almost like a fine tuning for me today, I guess is like I've been feeling productive, flowy lately and at the same time, like what I noticed this morning was just the feeling of pressure, like there's a lot going on in life right now, and the feeling of like it's on me. I got to take care of it and I maybe that's what my biggest takeaway was was like, yeah, I feel that way, and you and the other guy that was on the call really like helped me carry that burden a little bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's a lot there, right, because it doesn't matter if you're a parent, a dad and a whole family like an atomic family, nuclear family, I mean atomic family or a single single divorced dad. There's still that issue of how much pressure we put on ourselves.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and, and moms do it too, women do it too. I think dads carry it quietly. Whether, yeah, you're a single dad and you're getting that burden, you know full brunt of it when you have the kids and there's no other adult there, and whether it's one verse one or two verse one or whatever that's, yeah, that's a lot to take on and you know, for me, yeah, we're married and we're two verse two, but there's a lot of times where it's me versus the girls and even saying verse probably isn't the strongest frame of mind for it, but yeah dude, I think guys put a lot of pressure on ourselves and maybe that's helpful in ways.
Speaker 2:I do think there's like I want the pressure on me to perform and to do well. That's like cool, Bring it on.
Speaker 1:I want this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and outlets like our men's group to be like oh, it's a lot lately. I need to like maybe complain a little bit and like maybe just like bitch it out for a little bit and then get back in the game.
Speaker 1:So something you said really struck me there it's. It's almost like if we take on the burden consciously and we do it from a place of like bring it on, like like I'm up for this challenge, like I want this, I'm showing up for it, I got it versus the. It can quickly go downhill if we're not aware of it, because we can go into. This is all on me, this is only me. I can't ask for help. I'm doing this alone. Nobody else sees me. I'm not being acknowledged or heard or seen. Yeah, and it's almost like what I. What I noticed with a lot of dads that I work with, is that we can do that shit for decades and then there is a breaking point at some point where it's like and it's, it's on us I'm not blaming the world, yeah, like it's on us to take responsibility for it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, to name it. It's funny. It's like to name that I'm trying to do this alone and that's that's like Tommy, if I want to keep doing it alone, I can, but I don't have to. And what you said about, well, I don't know exactly how you said it, but it's this I always love the saying like what got us here isn't going to get us where we want to go, and I think that's what it like, at least like you when you're coaching dudes.
Speaker 2:When I'm coaching dudes, it's like we have had the pressure on for a while.
Speaker 2:We've been putting it on ourselves to, whether it's play sports or somehow perform in high school and in college and get good grades and perform in our careers, and like fight for the good jobs and the promotions and shit men looking for women out in the field. There's some like pressure to put yourself on there, and so it's been going on for a long time and the way our system is set up right now there isn't support for that. It's like there we don't even know it's an option to have other guys to talk about our struggles with and the challenges with, and we're just supposed to internalize that and it's on us when I say what got us here won't get us there is because that's it's been working like the dudes that we coach. They're successful, they're doing well, like all things considered, life is really good, and where they want to go is like fucking awesome relationships and like a career that not only pays but is something they enjoy going to every day. And to get there you can't take all that pressure on by yourself and yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's like you have to open up bandwidth because you have a finite amount of bandwidth and if it's stuck in resentment, if it's stuck in being exhausted, then that's creative or productive energy. That's just not available.
Speaker 2:Yeah, those are the signs, right Resentment, exhaustion. Those are the signs, the signals your body is telling you like hey, pause for a second and just take a second and ask what the hell is going on here. Why am I resentful, why am I exhausted right now? And yeah, that's oh. Yeah, I don't know. It took me a while to figure that out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, what's interesting too is it's not exclusive to good marriages, bad marriages, the reason I say this like well thought out divorces versus like very spontaneous and explosive divorces.
Speaker 1:But one of the things that I really enjoyed about being married was being on a team. I liked the give and take, I liked the collaboration, I liked being like you don't got it, I got it, you know, and very rarely was it a problem if both people didn't got it, you know. But as a divorcee, as a single dad, I find myself and I know this is common with other divorced dads I find myself going into that mindset like if I don't take care of this, nobody else is, and also an assumption of a lack of sympathy in the broader world. Like I can't go ask for help and I think it's helpful, like here and now, to sort of discard with that notion. Like I don't think help looks the same for everybody, but, like you said, like even the matter of like going to a men's group and just being like, hey, man, the only help I need is just to say that I'm carrying a burden and it fucking sucks right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's how it is and for, yeah, I, when you said there's a few things there, when you said you were married and you loved being on the same team, feeling on the same team, like so many of the dudes I coach are in marriages and don't feel that way and don't think that if we're arguing or if we're like having our wall up, we're not believing we're on the same team. I guess there's healthy arguments to have in communication but if there's, if we're going to battle with each other you know, maybe Michael Jordan had to call out Dennis Rodman sometimes and like point a finger in his face. But you know those rare occasions like being on a team, there's a. You can be married and not be on the same team. And I'm guess I mean you got cool stuff coming out with your co-parenting and guidance for single dads.
Speaker 2:Like I told you already, I sent that link out to a couple dads for your course that's coming up. So that was. I don't know when this is getting launched, if it's before, after your course, but next week, yeah. So my guess is that you can have that. Is it helpful to have that same mindset with your co-parent, like we're on the same team and, yeah, we're not in the same house anymore and it's different because, yeah, I don't know, I'll leave it at that.
Speaker 1:Well, no, I mean it's kind of rhetorical, because of course the answer is yes, right, like of course you should be on the same team Now, whether both parties are adult enough to get there in a marriage, in a committed marriage or outside of a marriage. Right, yeah, because you're right. I mean there are marriages where there are representations of two totally different agendas, obviously.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know we both went into the life coach school and there's a lot of coaching around. If you want to change your relationship, you change one. You know you only have to change one person and I fullheartedly believe that. And so if, like, a man wants to have a better relationship with his wife, and we're coaching him, we're going to help him see, like, his mindset and his actual needs and how he's maybe trying to get those from his wife and it's not his wife's responsibility, and that allows you to start creating a healthier relationship with yourself. Now, if your wife's not doing the work and you know she's not owning her emotions or she's whatever, there's like patients involved, I guess, and that's you know. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Well, okay, so you nailed it there. You kind of hit a sore spot too, which is awesome. One thing that comes to mind is Robert Glover's no More Mr Nice Guy, right, and one of the premises of that book is that nice guys look to have their needs met externally and they put that burden on the partner, and it works both ways. There's nice women out there, too, that do the same shit to their husband, right, and it creates friction, it creates resentment, because you're looking for, you're looking for your needs to be met by somebody that's not capable of giving those to you. Nobody is.
Speaker 1:It's not sustainable, and we get angry, and that's exactly why my marriage ended to be blonde, but I thought that I would be fulfilled by this other person. Put that burden on her, and then, when it didn't happen, I was sort of like well, you're not fulfilling your end of the bargain, and meanwhile she's like you're not fucking fulfilling your end of the bargain, you're your shit straight, right. And so that's a really important thing to point out is, I think a lot of people listen to us or interact with us because we're going to give them answers that make their lives better or fulfill them in some way, or like insert the missing link right, because that's the assumption of what coaching or therapy or anything else is.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So sometimes, sometimes, I guess, yes, it's like you fix this is what my dad always said, and he said it before you got married but like you got to have your house in order before you invite someone into your house and house being you know your mental capacity, your emotional like capacity. You get your shit together before you invite someone else in and I think a lot of the time these guys like they'll come in and they'll want coaching to. I think by the time you hire a coach, you're like, okay, it's something in me that I have to work on. Yeah, the external stuff, the money, the emotional connection that I've been wanting outside of me hasn't been happening. My frustration, my anger, it's like I've been pointing my finger for a while Now like maybe I'll like listen to, like what can I change? What do I actually have control over?
Speaker 2:And I think that there's like that and we've talked about this for in the men's group I think, like the different hats a coach wears, yeah, and there's like that coaching hat. That's like that unbiased reflection of how your mind said and your emotions are creating what you're doing. And then there is that mentor hey, try out this communication tactic, or try out this new habit building tactic or whatever it is. So there's like that mentor consultant hat, there's the coaching hat and I don't know, I mean I like think it's just coaching in general, like that for guys is it does add to your life, like you're saying it does. It creates fulfillment and it's not like I don't know. Fulfillment happens inside. So what changes when you get a coach? It's like you, you start to change yourself and that brings your happiness, fulfillment. That missing piece Like you have a son, I don't know, does he like frozen or frozen to he?
Speaker 1:likes frozen. I don't know if we watch frozen to yet.
Speaker 2:It's a good one. It's a good one.
Speaker 1:I have two daughters.
Speaker 2:So, frozen to, Elsa goes searching and like is looking for this one person and when she gets there she finds out it's herself. Like awesome song and it's a reflection and you're like, there you go. Like Disney nailed the hero's journey again.
Speaker 1:Totally. Yeah, that's actually profound. I find a lot of profundity in Disney movies in general because I watch a lot of them, but that's it is. The hero's journey is recognizing that you have to make the changes yourself, that you have to create validation for yourself, that you have to ask the hard questions. And yeah, I didn't want to make this. I don't necessarily want to make this a soapbox for why coaching is amazing.
Speaker 2:Well, we could shift and talk about Disney movies, what's your favorite, but I do want to put a final point on that.
Speaker 1:I think you're right that if men are showing up in this space, they recognize that it's not an external solution anymore. Yeah, yeah, my favorite Disney movie is Moana. Hands down my tops for sure. Yeah, what's your number one?
Speaker 2:Man, it might be Moana. I also love Inside Out, because I love talking about emotions and feelings and I think that that one cracks me up. But Moana, when the song of the ancestors or something like that drums, man, I just like get chills just talking about it, and my daughter and I'll rock that on the way to school.
Speaker 1:Okay, you know what I love about that is it takes you inside the view of what it means to be connected to something greater than yourself, right. And I think that's an element that's missing, probably in Western culture in general, but definitely in American culture. Yeah, and it's that idea of aligning with a higher vision or a higher priority, like we're here for more than working a nine to five job and paying a mortgage, and like showing everybody how good our kid is at hockey or snowboarding.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's more to life than that, yeah, and so you're told that song, the idea of connecting with your ancestors. Yeah, we can get so wrapped up and like the veil pulled over our heads of what a busy day looks like and what a meaningful, productive day looks like, and it's actually like what. So I got a course coming up. It's called Get Organized and it's like all about getting shit done, but it's about getting the right stuff done and the impactful stuff and being selfish, but in that selfish way that serves the greater good. And when does that come out? October, we started October 17th, I think it's a Tuesday, so two weeks from today.
Speaker 1:Okay, make sure I get a link so we can put that at the bottom of the show notes.
Speaker 2:Cool, yeah, for sure, and what I'm a big part of it is expanding that view. I think expanding like getting us out of the fricking day to day, and the way to do that is like stopping taking a course like this or hiring a coach where you can put aside time and there's different tools and tricks and modalities to open up our mind, to not just like like when we were born and when we're gonna die and realize how short our life is, and to like live now. Yes, that's awesome. But expanding it even further, like who were my ancestors, whether I knew them or not, like there are generations of human beings that have like done things in the world to get me to where I am today.
Speaker 2:And then you start asking, like what do you want to continue on? What do you want to take from the like what you have been given and carry on, and what do you want to like draw the line and be like? You know the anger that my dad brought from his dad and from his like drunk history. That stops with me and it's given me, like you know, but honor it and it gave me the insight as to what I don't want to do or whatever. So you know, moana trying to be the great daughter right Trying but also has this voice inside of her to do more, and then she empowers herself with like hopefully shit, my ancestors were voyagers. That voice inside me, it isn't BS, it's true, it's honest, and she can like be both.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so one of the things you touched on there was the ending generational trauma. Let's end like ending generational trauma is the essence of men's work, if we're being honest.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know getting out of the rage cycle, getting out of the like, the unconscious trauma, informed behaviors yeah Right, that our dads offered us, or that other male, male figures or male archetypes offered us and that were offered to them by their fathers, and so on and so forth. And then the idea of legacy. I get pushed back on the legacy word, sometimes Mm-hmm, why? For me it's not rational. I don't know what the pushback really is, but I think of legacy as what you want to leave behind, like the impact that you want to make, and I think about it in the context of interacting with my son. And this emphasizes the point that the idea of meaning, of broader meaning, is not out there. It's usually right in front of us. It's usually that little toe-headed six-year-old or that, you know, the newborn that keeps you up until four in the morning.
Speaker 2:Have you been living in my house the last week? No, but I've been there before, and that's the whole.
Speaker 1:Thing is like a lot of people come to me saying I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing, mm-hmm, and I want to respond, like your subconscious shows what you're doing now. Yeah, what you're doing now is incredibly meaningful. You're just not owning it because you're not getting validation from the rest of the world. Instagram isn't singing your praises for being a good girl, dad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Right, yeah, and yeah, and so I want to just do the legacy thing, because I think maybe what your pushback is is like focusing on your legacy as selfish.
Speaker 2:Right Like oh, you think you're so important that you have to focus on your legacy and I, thinking about your legacy, it's really asking what impact you want to make on the world, what influence you want to have on the world.
Speaker 2:And if you think of it that way, you're not going to be like I want my legacy to be an asshole, that everyone remembers me as the jerk and the fat ass and the one that never called them Right. You want to be remembered as the guy that was caring and that was there to help other people and to serve other people. And how do I? What legacy do I want to leave my kids? Just like you're saying, and then you zoom out and you see that, and then you can zoom in, like you're saying, and it's right, fucking in front of you, like that evening with your son. You've taken whatever subconscious, like automatic programming that has been going on for generations, that you've created since you were six. By focusing out and thinking about your legacy, you've expanded that and brought into consciousness this other importantness of like smiling and eating spaghetti with your hands and just having fun with it and making a huge mess and having your six-year-old laugh, instead of like trying to control everything around you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you should watch Silicon Valley? No, oh, I think I watched like the first couple apps.
Speaker 1:Okay, so it's like a group of like young kids right, it's the startup tech kind of programmer nerd like epic, you know, on HBO Max. It's really funny actually and these guys were like they wanted to be like, and these guys were like they were doing a startup and they're trying to get bought out and they're trying to like raise capital and all this shit. But the very beginning is they talk about like what is the motivation for people to create tech startups? And there's all these, there's all these aphorisms like make the world a better place and like solve world hunger, and all this shit.
Speaker 1:Meanwhile, on the back of their heads, they're like make a billion dollars, right yeah, and I always think about that in the context of legacy and like what we're missing right in front of us with our kids. It's like we can get obsessed with the things that gratify us Work, pursuing money, pursuing like you know, in my case, it'd be like having a harmonious relationship with my co-parent, which is obviously very ideal, but I could put a lot of effort into it Making ourselves loved, you know, like making a big, impactful business or something like that, and meanwhile, the things that matter the most are waiting at home.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, and all they, really, all that's really required. We don't have to be, we don't have to go through these grandiose gestures and efforts to make an impact, we just have to be present.
Speaker 2:I mean, dude, I'm learning that myself. I like I mean starting a coaching and consulting business. It was like I'm gonna start this coaching and consulting business and make so much money and like have the life of my dreams and control my schedule and like travel everywhere with my family and help the world at the same time. And I don't know, it's like cool and like it hasn't happened that quickly. But when I worry about that long term, like how's the business going to grow? What is the next three years going to look like? How am I going to make sure that the cash is flowing? And am I talking to the right guys or the right people? And you have to answer those like long term questions.
Speaker 2:But the more I got sucked into that like I don't know, maybe it was like living someone else's dream. It was living like what I've heard other coaches and consultants and those kinds of people live. And instead of what I've been working on and what you're talking about is like you already have the life that you want right now and if you don't, there's slight tweaks you have to make. It's not some big, grandiose changes you have to make If you want to find more joy, more fulfillment. It's like it's like you said it's right there for you. And are we being too like big by saying it's right there for you?
Speaker 2:I think it's just like there's time for worry, there's time for fear and scared and thinking about, like, how you're going to put food on the plate, food on the table or take the next sweet vacation, but if we're always there, we don't get to hang out with our families and like smile and love and support them. Right, like if we're worried about our own bullshit. We can't see our partner or our co-parents struggles that they're going through and the sorrows that they're going through and see them for a person and like listen and talk to them if we're all worried about our aspirations all the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think you did a good job of crystallizing that. Maybe we were being too vague, as it's one of those like marketing out for reasons like it's just there for the taking. It's like no, no, no, no, no. Like what we mean is like physically, it's right there in front of you, like the kid is like dad. All I want is your attention. I don't care if you drive a BMW. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:You're two fucks about what car you drive with the suit that you wear. If you're the salesman of the year, like I, just want you here now with me. That's it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and you know you, I don't know like you spell love T-I-M-E or something like that.
Speaker 1:I've heard that one before.
Speaker 2:And yeah, that's all our kids want. They just want our attention, our undivided attention. And one thing I'll do with dudes that I don't know where I picked up somewhere along the way is setting a timer for 15 minutes, like 15 minute timer, and you're deciding, in that 15 minutes, all your attention's on your kid. You're going to play whatever your kid wants to play and it doesn't matter the age. If it's my five year old and she wants to play house, it's house. If it's your 13 year old and they want to play video games, you play video games and you just do what they want to do. You can set the timer for however long, but it's, it's I don't know. It's really cool and impactful.
Speaker 2:I just did it the other day with our six month old because I totally like noticed that like I was saying a lot of like oh, this is mom's time. She's so little. It's mom's time. Dad'll be around when it's time to have fun. But anyway, in this 15 minutes I'll just say what happened with my five month old. She the first couple minutes. I'm thinking about the yard work that I have to do and looking around at the kitchen and being like I got to do dishes. But I'm like I set this 15 minute timer to just be with here. And right now she wants to play with my finger and like suck on my thumb, and so I'm like, all right, let's focus on that. And you know, it feels like so good with her little hands on my hand and like and it's a meditation for myself.
Speaker 1:Yes, it is meditation.
Speaker 2:Because I'm recognizing my mind wanting to go somewhere else. And then I'm there with my kid and I'm telling you by minute five you don't even remember the timers on you're like there and it's, that's it, man. I mean, you do that like a couple times a week. That's what your kids want. It creates the connection and yeah. So, like you said, they're right fricking there. And yeah, it's. I don't know, it's a little trick that I've used to talk to guides about sometimes.
Speaker 1:Dude, it's super effective also with, even with older kids, like I'll, I'll practice mindfulness, like like with with a timer or without. I'll just say, hey, this is his time right now, like stay on distracted, yeah. Second, I don't know if you've noticed this, but the second you focus on him like undivided, and your eyes meet his eyes or their eyes. Here's what happens with my kid is he looks at me and he smiles like I'm Luke and he's Obi-Wan. Oh, you get it now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's really wild, I know. And yeah, they can be our teachers in that sense. And yeah, it doesn't matter the age and the parenting wise I also think. I think, short term, you get to know your kid better and like the little intricacies and then, when it's time to discipline or it's time to like tell them to do things, you'll notice when they're like about to be triggered or they'll connect with you and listen to you more. It's been my experience, like when you give them your time and undivided attention, they give it more to you and I think in the long run, I think it'll probably build a better relationship. I'll let you know in 20 years how it goes with my daughters, but yeah, yeah two things you touch on there really quickly, just so for people listening at home.
Speaker 1:We got here in an organic way, but what we're talking about really is mindfulness with your kids and how to get there, and what it requires is a suspension of our own adult agenda and bringing ourselves down to their level. Because, as 40 something go, go go, or 30 something go go go, adults with successful careers, blah, blah, blah, the idea of sitting down and playing with some pretty rudimentary, rudimentary Legos or finger paints can seem like the most boring thing on earth until you're in it yeah, until you're connected, and there's a disconnect there for some people.
Speaker 2:Yeah well, it's a cycle. We get stuck in our cycle of feeling rushed, of feeling stressed and feeling pressure, and it's hard to break that cycle if we've been feeling it for a long time. And man, the opposite cycle of that is fun and relaxation. And not cracking open some IPAs and smoking some weed. Fun and relaxation. Not going and watching porn in the bathroom, relaxation, it's like pure fun with your little one and it feels different, right? You don't feel shame afterwards, you feel proud.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know, one of the questions I always ask myself in terms of aligning in my energy is is what I'm about to do? Like if my kid was to tell his wife or to recount his childhood story 20 years from now, where would he say his dad was?
Speaker 2:What would he say his?
Speaker 1:memory of his father was yeah, he always checked out. Was he hurried, was he distracted, was he stressed out? And one of the stories I hear a lot from guys, especially busy entrepreneurs, is the argument that, like their wife and their kids are like, like dad, we want more of you, want more of you. And they get defensive and they're like, yeah, but if I don't do this, like I'm doing this for you guys, I'm doing this so we can take the boat out on the lake on weekends and do this and do that. It goes back to my earlier point. Like they don't care about that, yeah, they just want dad. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's true. And so two things when I'm coaching guys and you know we talk about their relationship with their fathers two, two like things that I always hear they wish they had more love. It's either one more of their attention and in a way of like showing interest in what I'm interested in yeah, Not just what they wanted me to be interested in. And sometimes that aligns, like me and my dad, sports aligned perfect, like we got lucky, but that doesn't always happen. And so to be interested in what they're interested in, to really they wish their dads knew them better when they were younger. And then the second thing is the exact opposite they wish their dad told them a little bit more about themselves, about their struggles, about what they're going through as a human.
Speaker 2:And I find that, probably with like a little bit of older kids, but even like my daughter, right, she's, she's five and she's trying something new and it's going to school and like sharing. Like you know, when I was young it was really hard for me to hop on the bus the first time. I was pretty scared about it and not trying to fix it or anything like that. But she's like, oh what, dad's human too. He's like, I don't know. It's they, I, that's knowledge and wisdom that I'm taking from a lot of the men that I coach. Is that you know share. Then it's like, well, what's appropriate? Do I tell her like the craziest stories right away? Or I think there is like there's an appropriate sharing of like you know what life was like for you when you were their age, growing up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're absolutely right. And just that, being able to empathize and what what I've heard referred to is not killing their experience not killing their reality.
Speaker 1:Like if my son came over to school, was like this kid's being a bully and you know he says all these things to me and he wants to kill me. You know, and these are six year olds and like my reaction as a father is to be like number one, where is he? But number two it's like. It's like, oh man, he doesn't really want to kill you, like he's just saying that you know, that's you don't need to worry about that.
Speaker 1:Totally. And then the kid goes well, I'm never going to tell you that story again, because that's not what I wanted to hear. Yeah, you know, up to a certain age and probably beyond, they want to hear buddy, I'm sorry, Like come here, like give dad a hug, like stay here as long as you want, you're safe.
Speaker 2:It's I mean, yeah, and we've talked about this in our men's group like questioning that sometimes and not like not in that state so much as disciplining and should our kids listen to us? And should they listen the first time and should they hug grandma and grandpa every time they see grandma and grandpa if they don't really want to hug grandma and grandpa? And what does respect mean? And it's this new age, conscious parenting. It's different and I'm I don't know with all things like. So we've adopted both of our daughters. Our youngest daughter is black and that's going to bring like different.
Speaker 2:I don't know just tactics and ideas and how we're going to parent into the world.
Speaker 2:And you can go read all these books, listen to all these podcasts and pull information, but at the end of the day, you got to make it what you want it to be. So I'm like if, if dads want to spank, if dads want to yell, if dads want to use consequences and grounding, like I'm not a parenting coach, I'm not going to tell you how to do it. What I want to show you is like what happens when you parent from the heart, what happens when you parent from focus and belief and excitement instead of anger, thinking they're not respecting me, thinking, and one of the crazy things is like thinking I don't want them to be like me, I don't want them. I want them to succeed as an adult, and we think that's like a helpful thought, but it's really a scary thought that we think they're not going to and then we parent differently, it doesn't it? So if you parent from love or openness or gratitude, you know you can't go wrong. You just got to know yourself when you're there and when you're not.
Speaker 1:It's funny flipping that out the other way around. I had a conversation recently with a client where I was like you know, you don't need to look at your child as good or bad, you just need to look at what you learned from it, because what you learn either helps you or hurts you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember you did. I think you did a post on social with that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And so if we're parenting our kids with an eye on that future lens like, what am I teaching my kid? And you're right, we don't have to say, hey, don't spank your kids, don't yell at your kids, don't grab your kids, don't shame your kids. If we ask ourselves, hey, man, I'm cool with spanking my kid, and what am I teaching him in the process of doing that, then it becomes more of a reflection, becomes more of a critical decision.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a little like your. If you're asking yourself that, then you're slowing down enough to be aware of your action. It's not a blind spanking to shut them up or something like that, like you're at least stopping pausing, like all right, I'm thinking of spanking. Why am I thinking of spanking? What am I trying to teach? Yeah, you're right. I mean, it's all about being able to stop the quick cycles from continuing to happen.
Speaker 1:And if spanking doesn't feel good to me, if it feels weird, if I'm not getting the results I want from it and I don't know what else to do, then that's a prompt.
Speaker 2:I need to go looking for answers.
Speaker 1:I need to go looking for alternatives. I need to go looking for other strategies or experts.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's the thing with all of like. I guess it's like there's two ways. Then you find a successful parenting tactic. It works for like a phase, but then it's gone.
Speaker 1:Ah, don't say that, I know, I know.
Speaker 2:I mean, you're right, like our oldest both of our eldest kid is not what, your son's five or six, he's almost seven. Okay, he's almost seven. How many times have we had to change our day to day or our parenting tactics? And where was I going with this Anger?
Speaker 2:Like a lot of dudes struggle with anger and anger. We use it to control whether it's physical or whether it's yelling or taking jabs at people. We try to control the situation and it works, which is why we get like, why we think anger is helpful and why we stay in that cycle because we want everyone to quiet the fuck down. When we yell, everyone shuts up. Okay, that worked. So it's like let's just keep using that pattern. But it wears out and there's repercussions to it. One, it's like people don't respect you as much. They go up there goes that hothead. And two, it's even your kids, like it used to scare them and control them, but then it gets to a point where they're like, oh, there goes dad again, just like we'll let him yell for a few minutes and then, once he's done, he'll. You know, we can do whatever the hell we want. Or you know whatever that is, and it's a yeah, I don't know where I was going with that exactly.
Speaker 1:Well, let me ask you something about that. This is a tangent, but do you think kids get desensitized to other people's feelings when they get overused or inappropriate used? What do you mean? Like if we're constantly yelling at our kids and they start putting up that defense mechanism and then they're in a relationship where somebody has big feelings. Do you think they withdraw or shut out when that happens?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it probably is right. Whatever patterns we create to protect ourselves at the younger age are going to show up later in life. So if your dad screamed and yelled at you and your survival mechanism was to close down and walk away and go into your room, then when you get older, is it possible that when someone close to you gets angry or upset, you shut down and retreat? Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I noticed that in my own relationships because I got so used to other people's hysteria, like my mom's hysteria growing up, that whenever my wife would get angry about something, I would, I had one of two strategies, and neither of them oriented around acknowledging her feelings. Yeah, so it was either okay, I'm going to wait for you to calm down, because this is kind of out of left field, like you're being crazy, or it was the dad gets angry, use your big voice and shut the whole conversation down. Yeah, like everybody, just shut up. Okay, this conversation's over.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, yeah, that was me. I was raised my voice be heard during arguments and early in our relationship and my wife Brenda would be like do you know? You're yelling right now and I'm be like I'm not yelling, like seriously believing that I wasn't yelling and totally can trace it back to how my parents settled their disagreements. Right, they just yelled and over yelled at you. They're still married. It works for them, but it wasn't like that was one of the cuts in the sand. The line in the sand that I made was like I'm going to argue more productively than how my parents would argue and that took a lot of work, years of learning how to. Like you said, the one thing you weren't doing was considering their emotions and even understanding my emotions, and that's the first step. Right when we want to connect with someone else, we got to connect with ourself first.
Speaker 1:That's so beautifully put. You know, one of the things that gets skipped over in, like how tos and self improvement. Like, everybody focuses on the new behavior, integrating the new behavior. Right, that's the key. The new habit, the seven habits, the 30 days to a new habit, that's all the emphasis, but there's no real focus because it's abstract and it's nebulous and it's hard to pin down on what informs the behavior in the first place. Yeah, and when you get into that, that's the real work.
Speaker 2:I think that's the cool thing with coaching, because what you do is you look at where you're at right now and why you're there, where you want to go, which is that new seven habits that you want to create, or the 30 days that you want to create, like that's where you want to be. And when you start to ask yourself what's going to stop you, that's when it's going to pull up those, the reasons why you're doing the unhelpful habits that you're doing right now. And you know people ask, like what's the difference between therapy and coaching? And I think coaching, like you know, we look back with clients. I know I look back with clients and we got to look back at the old stories that we have, the old experiences that we have, and maybe hang out there for a little bit to understand what the hell was going on and to have some compassion for ourselves. But we do that to grow and move forward.
Speaker 2:It's like, like you know, we're hurt. I mean this could get a little soft. Maybe some dudes, depending on like who's listening, might think it's soft, but we're hurt, like there's something in our past that's hurt, there's pain, we're angry about it, we resent it, we're sad about it and there's a little bit of like compassion and healing that has to be done before we can go on and crush our goals. If, like it's like, if you're playing for the Super Bowl, you got a long season to play and if you're playing with a hurt ankle that you never give a second to rest, like by week 16, it's going to be more hurt and you're not going to be able to have that like extra push to go forward. So you pause for a couple of weeks and you look at what got you the injury, figure out how to strengthen it, how to give it some attention to heal it, and then you push forward again.
Speaker 1:You remind me of that expression emotional agility.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've heard our buddy Craig talk about it. I want to his podcast and he named the guy he heard it from, but I don't remember who it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't remember either, but it's funny that you talk about the hurt ankle, like if the hurt ankle is our inability to process emotion, then we're not available for that cutback, that pivot right. Yeah, we don't have it in us. Yeah, that's when we hit our limit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if we're not willing to look at that hurt ankle and really like, yeah, look at it and call it out and say that it's hurt and give it what it needs, yeah, that's the same thing as having an emotion that you're not willing to look at, not willing to pay attention to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, when we talk about emotions too, it's. It's we're talking about defaults, Like, like we're talking about tools that we use, that have become dependable over time, and it's real close it's not the same thing, but it's real close to addiction and vice right, their habitual neural pathways that we've we've carved very, you know very well worn grooves into their super highways. For information now happens very quickly. And there's this I think he's a psychologist from Vancouver, gabo Mati. We use the word of stuff. He has this, this one book on addiction.
Speaker 1:I listened to him on Rogan, I've listened to him on his own podcast and one of the things he talks about is how addiction or, in this case, default behaviors, when we look at them from the lens of judgment or criticism, then we're invoking shame and it doesn't make us want to really fix the behavior, it just makes us go inward and withdraw. But when we look at how those default behaviors and those addictions vis-à-vis addictions serve a purpose, that, what do they provide? What does the addiction provide? Provides comfort, safety, control, an illusion of control. Yeah, sorry, I'm getting out of brass tacks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then you're like how long have you been looking for safety and comfort and control, like when you remember like first not feeling like you have safety and then we like go into. Yeah, gabor's work is so it opened me up to and I think he like call you know his works all around trauma and I think he defines his like capital T trauma versus lowercase T trauma and or maybe I've heard it somewhere else, but I thought that's a really good distinction Because again, you know we start talking about emotions. I always like to be like all right dudes, if you're listening to this. We say trauma like it's not bullshit stuff, it's not like soft stuff and whether you like had a big T trauma or a small T trauma, if there's like big things you want in life, there's some trauma that you're probably going to have to address a little bit. I guess you don't have to write. None of this work has to happen. You can keep going through life and being just fine, like you don't have to do any of this stuff. But if there is like connection better connection with your kids emotionally like there's probably like some emotional work to do there and I like I was working with this one dude that he started his own company, his kids were out of the house, kind of on this new stage in life and just I'll go through this value exercise and it's kind of like I don't want to give my secret away, but it's like a hidden values exercise and you ask all these questions and then you like pull values from that.
Speaker 2:And one of the questions like what? When was last time? You felt excited and he couldn't really answer that question and so that was like insightful, just to like get where he was at. And this doesn't have anything to do with trauma, but anyway, I was coaching him for a little bit and we were like he was, it was just a really good, we were building a really good rapport. And then he, outside of working with me, was like I was listening to some Gabor Mate stuff. My wife had me listen to it. Can we explore some of that? And I was like, yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:And what I want to say about it is and I don't know what your experience is with it but a lot of the times trauma like comes up and really starts to be damaging to our emotional and mental health when shit goes wrong in life, when something blows up like you get a divorce or someone dies tragically close to you or there's an accident or you're I mean, dude, you've been through a few things right your kids diagnosed with type 1 diabetes, like those big things can stir up some shit and that's when we can really go down the hole of depending on different substances or different outlets to heal that, that pain and that discomfort. Or it's a time to like do some of that trauma work. And what I'll say to like listeners and what I what I think I got really freaking lucky of is I found it before anything like went catastrophically wrong with me, so I was in more of a peaceful, safe place doing some of my own like childhood exploration and yeah, I think what do you call it?
Speaker 2:Therapy or coaching. I think it benefits like your well-being exploring some of that stuff.
Speaker 1:You know. It's funny that you brought that up, because one of the things that Gavra Matai also said is that in cases of PTSD like like a combat veteran PTSD that it almost never shows up if there aren't prior cases of trauma in the patient's childhood, that the effects of PTSD are magnified. That's what the effects of PTSD are magnified depending on the varying degrees of trauma that the child experienced.
Speaker 2:So it's like you have a trauma, then you go to war and you have more trauma.
Speaker 1:That's like built up on the past trauma, right, betrayal, abandonment, violence, cruelty, whatever it's just, it's amplified by the wartime experience.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's, that's interesting and he's doing such cool work. And have you seen his documentary? No, it's cool. I've never done. I mean I've done some psychedelics, but I've never done it in a therapy setting. I don't do it in like party settings, I like doing it in nature and like walking around and you know that way. But he does. It's only a snippet of it, but he has someone laying in a chair and I don't know if he took some MDMA or a psilocybin something, but he kind of gives him some therapy as he's going through his psychedelic experience and it was just really beautiful and I was like, wow, all right, that's cool. So he's just doing amazing work. And in that documentary, if you find it, he also interviews a lot of other people that are doing really cool things and just seeing human beings for human beings and not like not seeing the addiction, but seeing the human being behind the addiction. And it's not always easy to remember, but I don't know, I like trying to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was like trying to what?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I guess I went all over, I guess trying to see the human being, for, like the human being they are and not, you know, the the addiction that they have, or even like the fancy car that they drive right, there's still a human there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, like the whole, all rich people are bad and all you know, or all drug addicts or dangerous, or yeah, or all like CEOs or bad people or like politicians are bad yeah.
Speaker 1:So going back to the Big T little two thing just to clarify for for some listeners. So when I think of Big T, I think of like your mom wakes you up out of your bed at two in the morning, carries you out of the house, rushes you into the car, you drive to Iowa and you wake up to your new life to escape your alcoholic father. That's Big T. That's like your whole life just changed and you had no control over it. Little T is like you're having a bad day and your uncle didn't want to buy you an ice cream cone and for some reason you remember it to this day, but it didn't impact you fundamentally.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, yeah, or yeah, or I think like a little tea for me when I was little tea, little time, no, I'm just kidding Was school, and sorry, was school. And it was kind of over. It was like a. It was like a drawn-out trauma of just being really scared of how smart I was in school and having to read in front of the class and I definitely remember this like one moment and I think it was something that like stuck with me for a while and how it's shown up. Becoming a business owner was like I'm not smart enough, I'm not good enough to I don't know how to learn, I'm not good at school to get better at this stuff. And you know it wasn't a, it wasn't a capital T trauma, but it was something that like emotionally I was in this fear frozen state for a while.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what? Um? So what do you want guys to know if they came, if you're gonna have a conversation with them, what do you think, like your, what do you think your biggest message is as a coach for dads? Like, what do you want guys to know?
Speaker 2:Man, I, if I could just tell them and they would know yeah.
Speaker 2:I think what I would tell them is that they have a responsibility and that they are making a big impact on the world, whether they like, want to or not they are. We all have a ripple effect of the energy that we put out into the world. And you you have. You have this responsibility and you get to decide how you want to show up and what you want to do. And I guess the other thing, the the end of that would be like if you want help doing it, there's people that'll support you and dudes that are like doing this together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, great point like there is. There is a collective of seasoned, competent, professional coaches and healers, not not on this podcast.
Speaker 2:The other one's not here.
Speaker 1:we're in, we're in the trenches with you here, but we're good at what we do you want someone in the trenches with you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'm on a piggyback on what Tommy's saying here is that we do have a responsibility and the sooner we own. That it's sacred, that it's a lineage that it is, that it's transcendent of our immediate needs, and gratification, like what we're doing, is really important. Just being present as fathers is really important, and changing who we are for the benefit of the people that depend on us. That's sacred work, yeah, and it shouldn't be taken lightly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and what we were talking about before. If you're doing it right, it's pretty light.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it shouldn't feel like it's a battle all the time. Right, it's a hero's journey, but it doesn't have to be hard all the time.
Speaker 2:Yeah and and fuck. It is like you were saying, like it's a hard responsibility and I've fallen into the trap that I just want things to be easier, I just want life to be kush. It's part of that like nice guy syndrome, that like if I work hard, if I clean the dishes and I take care of the house and I walk the dog, then everything else should be easy, then I shouldn't get. No one should give me a hard time.
Speaker 1:Let's borrow a sports metaphor. What? Let's borrow a sports metaphor. Yeah, okay, the reason Michael Jordan dominated on the court, the reason Barry Sanders dominated on the field, is it went back to their training ethics. It went back to the time they put in, they challenged themselves to expand the boundaries of their capacity. So when it was real, they were more competent, they were better and it was easier and they had more to enjoy.
Speaker 2:Yeah and that's why coaching. That's what coaching is right. The game is being there with your kids in the evenings or all day on a Saturday, and you're the only one with them. Practice off the field is sitting down with a coach and exploring like your emotions, and instead of just blocking them off like we usually do, they expand Totally.
Speaker 1:That's it for today's episode. Hey, did you know that I work with 101 clients? Did you know that I offer group coaching? Go ahead and go to my website and go to the page labeled how to work with me, and you'll find all the details there. You can also send me an email or you can sign up for a free discovery call. Finally, you can follow me on Instagram at Jay Davies Rush. Go ahead and send me a message and tell me what questions you have or what topics you'd like to discuss on the next podcast.
